How many different automatic transmissions did GM offer in 1961?

"WilliamsSW" (williamssw)
08/14/2018 at 22:01 • Filed to: Shitpost

I count NINE. GM was clearly drunk at the time.

Not long after this, the shit hit the fan and they started standardizing, leading to various shitty rebadges...

Why am I looking at this crap? Because reasons.

DISCUSSION (26)

Chariotoflove > WilliamsSW
08/14/2018 at 22:16

Someone needs a job. Or some more chores.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > WilliamsSW
08/14/2018 at 22:27

It’s even more fun when you know that in ‘58 or ‘59(iirc), GM’s Cadillac transmission plant burned, so they contracted with Borg Warner to pick up the slack... with what were basically first gen Ford/Lincoln Cruise O Matic boxes.

BaconSandwich is tasty. > WilliamsSW
08/14/2018 at 22:42

Drunk at the time - and hung over ever since!

WilliamsSW > Chariotoflove
08/14/2018 at 22:44

Counterpoint: no

WilliamsSW > BaconSandwich is tasty.
08/14/2018 at 22:45

Nah still drunk I think.

WilliamsSW > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
08/14/2018 at 22:45

4 of the 9 were introduced in 1961. All 4 were discontinued in 1964.

Ssfancyfresh > WilliamsSW
08/14/2018 at 22:58

How many do they have now?

WilliamsSW > Ssfancyfresh
08/14/2018 at 23:21

I’m sure they have a fair number, but they have a broader product offering now.

Back then, all but 2 GM cars ( Corvair and Tempest) had the same basic configuration.

Nine was easily twice what they needed and way more than Chrysler or Ford had at the time.

WilliamsSW > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
08/14/2018 at 23:26

How many was Ford building around that time? 2 or 3?

I’m just thinking about USDM cars only - no trucks or furrin’ stuff.

WilliamsSW > Chariotoflove
08/14/2018 at 23:28

https://classics.autotrader.com/classic-cars/1964/oldsmobile/starfire/101006532

This ad is what led me down this wormhole btw.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > WilliamsSW
08/14/2018 at 23:47

‘61 was around when they introduced the “two speed” ford o matics, I think, but those really don’t count, as they were basically the same minus a sprag clutch and a couple valve body parts. I don’t remember if the Falcon one was a special small case or not, but if it was the same as the Mileage Maker six and 260/289/y-block , then:

FX case:COM and FOM versions, MX case: COM and FOM versions(?), and Lincoln case:COM. So five or six trans that were really 3 or 4 at most.

WilliamsSW > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
08/15/2018 at 00:11

The 9 GM boxes is arguably 6 or 7:

Powerglide ( big Chevy)

Turbo glide ( big Chevy)

Corvair Powerglide

Super Hydramatic ( Cadillac, plus Pontiac C bodies)

Roto Hydramatic ( 2 versions, one for the F85 Olds, one for the full sized Olds/B body Pontiacs)

Turbine Drive ( Big Buicks)

Tempest Torque ( pretty similar to the Co rvair PG)

Dual Path Turbine Drive ( Buick Special)

The real brilliant move was introducing the senior compacts and letting each division come up with its own transmission.

Eric @ opposite-lock.com > WilliamsSW
08/15/2018 at 00:35

Has GM ever been sober outside the accounting department?

Alcohol is the least of their problems.

Junkrat aka Rick Sanchez: Fury Road Edition > WilliamsSW
08/15/2018 at 01:26

The different GM brands were more autonomous back at that time?

pip bip - choose Corrour > WilliamsSW
08/15/2018 at 06:45

TIL

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > WilliamsSW
08/15/2018 at 08:11

Not actually a bad development plan in some ways, IMO.

“OK, every branch design their own transmission. We’ll release them into the wild and adopt the ones that work best as our standard later.”

WilliamsSW > Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer
08/15/2018 at 08:47

And you thought that selling beta products to customers was a recent development from tech companies!

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > WilliamsSW
08/15/2018 at 08:50

How long had the big two speed Buicks been out of inventory by that time (dynaglide?)

I think it’s much worse if you look at a period of five years or so, with things like that and the BW Cadillac box . Trans mechanics must have hated corporate’s guts.

WilliamsSW > Junkrat aka Rick Sanchez: Fury Road Edition
08/15/2018 at 08:52

Way more so. They didn’t even share things like frame designs uniformly, despite building similar sized cars (B and C bodies).

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > WilliamsSW
08/15/2018 at 08:53

Only difference is you could get away with not calling a “ beta”

WilliamsSW > Eric @ opposite-lock.com
08/15/2018 at 08:56

They’ve gone back and forth between letting the engineers release products that weren’t fully baked and having the accountants cut costs too deeply since the dawn of man.

WilliamsSW > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
08/15/2018 at 09:40

Effing Kinja - this is my 3rd try at replying, after Kinja wiped out 3-4 paragraphs on me TWICE.

Dynaflow is the name you’re thinking of — and the 2 speed big Buicks went all the way through 1963. They renamed it Turbine Drive around ‘59 or ‘60, but it was still a Dynaslow really. They did update it through the ‘50s to deal with heavier cars and more powerful engines - and it was around 1953 that the transmission actually gained the ability to shift itself. Before that, it was designed to be driven as a single speed, though it had a low and high range that you could shift *manually* between.

It’s definitely way worse if you look at a 5 year range - 1961 was the peak for GM, as it was the last year for the Turboglide and first year for the *three* different transmissions in the B-O-P compacts, as well as the Roto Hydramatic. But if you look back a few years, you get an older Hydramatic, Buick’s Triple Turbine Drive, and different versions of the Dynaflow, just to name a few.

I need to, um, find a job first, but am doing research on buying a big Olds or Pontiac convertible once that happens - which likely means a car that was born with the Roto Hydramatic, unless it’s a Bonneville. I’ve owned a car with that trans before, and it’s mildly annoying even when it works correctly. Between the use of whale oil, high internal pressures, and downright stupid ratios (2nd range/1st gear is 2.93; 3rd range/2nd gear is 1.56 with full lockup - WTF?), that trans isn’t easy to deal with - and it is sounding to me like swapping in a better trans isn’t quite as easy as you might think, though it’s of course doable.

Research on that has led me down this wormhole...

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > WilliamsSW
08/15/2018 at 10:06

It wasn’t too bad because it only appeared on a half year of Cadillacs, but the Borg Warner I keep talking about was (just like the Roto Hydramatic and Dynaflow) wildly different than the ordinary GM transmissions, meaning a GM transmission tech had to be familiar with multiple wholly different paradigms of operation. That trans has a Ravigneaux gearset instead of a pair of Simpson gearsets, which means that it has two clutches for concentric sun gear shafts, a band to lock the planet carrier(!) and a band to lock the outer ring, of which there is only one. Inside the output shell, there’s a sprag clutch. It’s wildly different enough that I can imagine a senior transmission shop head assigning one to junior staff as a prank. They also (before they were revised) had a direct throttle linkage with an anti-stall dashpot instead of a vacuum modulator.

WilliamsSW > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
08/15/2018 at 10:19

That’s wild. And I’m also wondering whether adapter plates were needed, if shift patterns were the same ( GM itself had a different pattern for every trans at the time), etc?

That trans sounds a bit more like the PG in terms of basic design. The direct throttle linkage isn’t something I’m aware of GM using though.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > WilliamsSW
08/15/2018 at 10:38

I think the shift pattern was already gelled to PRND1D2L at that time, which probably wasn’t too far off standard for Cadillac.

Yeah, it’s a little bit like a Powerglide, but I think a Powerglide outputs to the secondary sun sort of directly instead of using it as an input. Related to how Ford had two-speed versions - instead of being like a Powerglide with only two speeds overall, the Ford “two-speed” automatics were just that - automatic in two speeds, but with another selectable manually. Since 1st-2nd required two lockups, the Cruise-O-Matics have the one-way clutch and stay locked in first differently when in 1-2-3 drive than when manually in 1. So they both have a few extra pieces vs. the Powerglide.

WilliamsSW > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
08/15/2018 at 10:53

Yeah the PG was built to a cost, so I would expect Fords to have a few more parts - basic gearset design is somewhat similar though, which isn’t true for the Hydramatic.

I believe the Hydramatic still had reverse at the far right at the time. I know for a fact that the Roto did, all the way through 1964, and I’m pretty sure that’s true for the Hydramatic too.